A Conversation with Coach Clay Jordan
On an early afternoon in August, I approached Coach Clay Jordan and acknowledged the high temperatures outside. “Yeah,” Coach Jordan replied, “we’ve been out there on the practice field.” I could not help but take note of the casual, unbothered way in which he said those words. It proved that such a thing was second nature to him. Though there is no mandatory obligation for his presence in such conditions, it is easy to believe that the same tone would be shown even if there was one. As a head coach for over thirty years, that most certainly was the case. His choice to be there on a hot summer day is made without any question or hesitation. It comes from Coach Jordan’s dedication and pure love for the game of football. It is an indescribable passion that Clay Jordan portrays best through a simple grin and twinkle in his eye. Those expressions were only the start of an open expression of appreciation for his life, career, and the many people who helped shape both. In great detail, Coach Jordan explores the peaks and valleys that represent a well-traveled journey. With no end in sight, it is clear that the ultimate reward for Clay Jordan is the journey itself, which he so graciously recounted in this conversation.
MB: We’ll go ahead and start from the beginning. Where were you born and raised and what did your folks do for a living?
CJ: Well, I was born in Greenville, North Carolina. The first year of my life, so my dad tells me, we spent in Fort Jackson. He was in the Army. Then after one year he got out of the Army and we came back to Vanceboro. So I’ve been here for 65 years.
MB: And how would you describe Vanceboro during those early years in your life while you were growing up?
CJ: Vanceboro has always been a good little place. You’ve gotta understand in the early part of my life, elementary age, the Klu Klux Klan was very prevalent and my dad, the type of work he did, he worked with a lot of low income farmers and co-oping their crops and the majority of those low income farmers were black. So it was a little tough for our family. We had- he had some threatening stuff go on. We had a cross burn in our yard. So it was a little tough on our family the first 10-12 years that I was growing up.
MB: What role did sports play in your life in those early years, in those tough moments?
CJ: Well, to be honest with you, when I was growing up here we didn’t have a recreation department. We either played basketball or football on our own in the neighborhoods, or we had a man named Mr. Earl Wright who was very instrumental in starting a recreational basketball team that we played on. He would carry us everywhere playing. There was no organized little league at that time. There was no organized football. Mr. Wright did provide organized basketball for us. But there were outside goals up at a lot of places. Different from today, you would see kids out there playing basketball or baseball in a field. That was all you saw riding around. So it gave us something to do that was wholesome.
MB: Kept you out of trouble.
CJ: Right. We made some great friendships in that stuff and there were no racial problems on the basketball court or baseball field. We were just- that’s what I love about athletics anyways- the racial divide is gone.
MB: It’s all about the competition.
CJ: It’s all about the competition and the team. We didn’t have it organized, but it got us outside and I think that’s one thing that’s lacking now. I can’t remember the last time I saw a bunch of kids out in the yard playing anything.
MB: It’s not as common these days. So, I guess it was about mid-way through your high school career when West Craven High School opened up. What sports did you play in high school there?
CJ: Well, my story was, I went to- my freshman year I was out here at Farm Life. West Craven opened up my sophomore year and so we moved from just having Vanceboro kids mainly at Farm Life to going to West Craven where we had the Jasper area, Cove City area, Dover area- in fact me and Coach Jones became best of friends that year. We didn’t have any middle school programs back then. Once we got to West Craven, I was a three sport guy every year. It was football, basketball, and baseball. It was just so nice to have organized stuff, because we didn’t grow up with that stuff. I think I lettered in like nine or ten sports.
MB: Did you prefer one over another? Or was it all kind of the same mindset for each one?
CJ: I really kind of enjoyed baseball probably more than anything, the games. I didn’t enjoy the practices, because it was kind of boring. But, I liked them all. I was probably better at baseball, to be honest with you, than I was at anything else. Football was always special, because there was just- there’s a fellowship and just a comradery and even today’s three sport people like myself, if we get together it seems like football comes up because there’s just that little bond and chemistry. So, baseball’s probably my favorite sport to play. Football is what I got more out of than I did anything else.
MB: Did you have any interest in coaching then? Did you look up to certain coaches when you were in high school that coached you?
CJ: Yes and no. I had some really good coaches at West Craven, but they weren’t there very long. So, it was kind of hard to get a bond with any of them. I played for Richard Peeler in football. I think he was there two of my three years. In basketball, we changed every year … and in baseball, so it was hard. I’ll tell you, Mr. Wright, Mr. Earl Wright was the guy. He used to carry me to basketball camp at Duke, because he worked that camp every year. I really didn’t think about going into coaching because I knew, money wise, teaching and coaching ... (laughs)
MB: Oh, yeah.
CJ: So I went to N.C. State to be an engineer. (laughs)
MB: I was going to ask you where you went to school and what your mindset was in those years.
CJ: I went to N.C. State to go into engineering. I didn’t know a thing about engineering, except that my dad had a really good friend who made a lot of money doing it. So, I went up there to State and the first year that I was in the engineering program. I couldn’t stand it. I had no interest in it at all, didn’t care how a bridge was built, just wanted to get over it. Didn’t care about anything- I didn’t really think. I went to college to be an engineer, but also went to State because my girlfriend was there, I’m just going to be honest with you. Then I decided, “I can’t do this all my life.” So, I wanted to get into teaching and coaching, and they didn’t offer that at State. After the first year, I had to transfer to East Carolina and I finished up there at East Carolina.
MB: Coach Jones and Mr. Don Hughes also shared their hiring process to West Craven. One specific meeting has come up, I don’t know if you want to share anything about that.
CJ: That was a weird circumstance. I had been going to the middle school to talk to the coach out there, trying to get a job at the middle school. I thought they were going to have an opening in PE. So, I was in the swimming pool at East Carolina, taking swimming class my senior year and they came over the PA and said, “Clay Jordan please report to Craven County School System this afternoon at one o’clock,” at like nine o’clock in the morning. I said, “I must have got the job at the middle school.” So I flew to Craven County Board of Education and walked in and there I saw Coach Jones and Mr. Hughes standing there. I didn’t really know Mr. Hughes all that well and I went, “What the world?” To make a long story short, they had fired the whole coaching staff or something and our superintendent said, “I’m going to hire you three.” Well, Mr. Hughes was already working there, for one.
MB: He had the one year seniority.
CJ: Right! He says, “Y’all go out there in the hallway. I need a football coach, a basketball coach, and a baseball coach” and Don, Mr. Hughes, he said, “I’ve been there a year, I’m going to take baseball.” (laughs) Coach Jones said, “Man, I ain’t never played no football, don’t know nothing about it. I’ll take basketball.” And I said, “Well, okay, here we go!” And that’s- I’m sure they told you, that’s the way we started. Me and Coach Jones were never assistant coaches. We started from day one as the head coach.
MB: Just jumped right into it. When was your first season at West Craven?
CJ: ‘78. ‘78-’79 school year.
MB: And you were how old then?
CJ: Twenty-one!
MB: Twenty-one. And so just talk about the player-coach relationships. Being that young, were you able to connect with them more because you guys weren’t too far off in age?
CJ: I think it helped and hurt. I think it helped because I had a lot of energy and I had been involved in athletics up until the time I got a job. I think I could relate to kids, because I was a kid- more or less. I think it hurt, as far as, I didn’t really understand the discipline aspect of it. I really didn’t understand that I was going to be a father to seventy or eighty kids. You know when you’re going into coaching you think about just drawing up plays. You don’t think about the role model aspect and the positive energy you need to supply to these kids that might not get it somewhere else. I think it hurt and helped me, but I really got help from a lot of older coaches here in the county.
MB: What kind of shape was the football program in at that point when you took over that first year?
CJ: Not good. It had never been- I think they had one decent year after I went to college, but it had never been really good. My main goal for accepting that job, which my dad thought I was crazy for taking it, I just wanted to make it better and I knew it could be better, but I knew they needed to understand the area. The coaches we had previously, they really weren’t from this area and they didn’t understand how these kids had to work in tobacco fields until six, seven o’clock and you couldn’t practice in the mornings and the kids were going to have problems getting there because we stretched so far, all the way to Dover. They didn’t understand those problems and I knew those problems because I lived those problems. So, I think I had an advantage in that regard because I understood. We practiced at seven o’clock at night because that’s when the kids could get there. I think it helped me in that regard, because I knew what needed to be done to fit this area. This is a different area than a Havelock or a New Bern. You know, those kids can walk to practice and our kids can’t do that.
MB: There’s specific needs around here. So, how was your first season? Did it take the team long to find success or was it a long road to get there?
CJ: The first year, me and Mr. Hughes, who was helping me at that time, we went around and knocked on every door in Craven County. Because they had no phone numbers, they couldn’t get kids out for football. Because you have to understand, when we combined at West Craven; Vanceboro Farm Life had football, but Jasper and Cove City, none of them played football. So, there were only a handful of kids that had ever played any football. So, we had to get the kids to buy-in. The first night I’ll never forget, we had over eighty kids at practice and the second night after I ran a practice, we had like thirty. (laughs)
MB: (laughs) That’s how it works sometimes.
CJ: But it was a struggle. That first year, I think we were- we actually won our first game that year. But we were 2-8 and the second year we were like 3-7. But then the third year, those kids I had started with as sophomores, we ended up being 7-3 my third year and won the conference championship and that kind of got us rolling.
MB: Going into the ‘80s there, you started off pretty strong. Like you mentioned, in 1980 you won the conference. Do you remember some of the key players from that year in those first three years?
CJ: Oh yeah. In 1980 we had a kid named Norman Becton. That was our first scholarship kid. He went to the University of North Carolina on a full scholarship. We had a kid named- a quarterback named Sam Hardy. Sam has passed away now, but the thing I remember about Sam, him being our quarterback, his sons played for me: Brian and Justin Hardy. So, that was a special bond we had going there because I had coached their father and I coached both brothers.
MB: Generational.
CJ: And another kid we had named James Roach who was a great back. I mean we had- by that time they had been in our system three years and some of those kids had really developed and we had a pretty decent team that year.
MB: A few years later, starting in 1983 you accomplished your first three-peat of conference championships. What kind of offensive system did you guys run at that point? Was it pass heavy or run heavy?
CJ: Well early in my career we were a run heavy team because I thought that was the easiest thing to teach kids that had never played. And then as I started going on about this time, I had been a quarterback in high school and the three years I played at West Craven we didn’t throw the ball hardly at all. And I kind of understood that was missing from the program so I started developing- I was probably one of the first guys in Eastern North Carolina to actually go to a full fledged passing offense. When we were making these runs back in that day, a lot of the reason was that people around here didn’t know how to defend it, because they didn’t do it. So, we kind of took off with the passing game and I’d say my last fifteen/twenty years, I was full fledged. We were going to throw it.
MB: And during that time period, after Hardy, who was your quarterback then?
CJ: After Sam, we went through quite a few. I’ll tell you, names and dates run into each other. My brother played quarterback for me for two years.
MB: Oh wow, and how was that coaching him? How was that dynamic?
CJ: It was tough at times (laughs) he wanted to know why I was picking on him all the time, you know, because I had to kind of set an example with him. But it was fun, I’ll cherish it. One of the greatest pictures I’ve got in my house is me and my brother on the sidelines- he as my quarterback and me coaching him up, you know.
MB: Would you say offense or defense was your team’s greatest strength? Or was it a little of both?
CJ: Well it was a little bit of both. I’m an offensive guy. I had coach Tony Caprara from Vanceboro here, who passed away here recently, he was my defensive coordinator volunteer and he knew how to coach defense and he knew how to motivate the kids. To be honest with you, the better players we had early in my career were probably defensive players. To George Koonces of the world, the Jesse Campbells of the world, all these kids that went to the NFL and then I had numerous kids that went to college, as far as on the defensive side of the ball.
MB: In 1985 you were only one game away from making it to the state championship. What was that experience like, coming that close, and the specifics of that game?
CJ: We played Ragsdale out of Greensboro in the eastern finals and we had the lead with about forty seconds to go and they threw a pass and we missed a tackle and they carried it all the way down to like the 1 yard line and we tackled them. With about fifteen seconds left in the game, they ran it in for the winning score. I mean we- our fans were so excited. We already had the buses cranked up to go to Chapel Hill for the state championship game. That was probably- that was by far the most disappointing of my career.
MB: Was that at home?
CJ: That was home. Yep.
MB: With standouts like, as you mentioned, Jesse Campbell and George Koonce in that mid to late ‘80s era, what was coaching them like? Can you describe their style of play?
CJ: You know, I think we had Jesse and George and then Anthony Wright went pro as a quarterback, Justin Hardy had time in the pros. It was great. I’ll tell you what happened, these kids around this area, once we got playing good football and the college people started coming around, they saw this as a way to improve, as a way to get out into the world and see some different places and have an opportunity they wouldn’t have had around here and that stuff started snowballing. Our kids started saying, “Golly, if I just keep my grades up a little bit and I keep working in the weight room and on the track and on the football field, these kids are going to school free? And they’re traveling all over the country?” And that stuff started snowballing and it was one of the greatest motivational things our school had going. I mean, I think somebody gave me a number, I think in the 32 years I coached we had like 87 kids go to college free. A lot of those were what they call D1 schools and it was amazing seeing these kids have the opportunity that they would have never had had it not been for athletics. I mean, not that they couldn’t have gotten to college from West Craven because West Craven was a good school academically but-
MB: The financial aspect.
CJ: The financial aspect of it. We would carry them to college campuses every summer to a camp, you know, we just said, “Hey guys, this is what’s out here,” and that just started snowballing.
MB: It gave them something to work towards, you know, during the year.
CJ: Oh yeah, it was amazing. We had coaches come: Lou Holtz from Notre Dame was in my office talking, Joe Paterno from Penn State came to my office recruiting kids, Bobby Bowden from Florida State. All these people were actually coming to Vanceboro to check on these kids about scholarships.
MB: Was their awareness of this area more from you reaching out to them? How did they know to come all the way to Vanceboro?
CJ: Well, we did a good job of, like I said, we carried our kids to camps every summer, the whole team. We would get them on a college campus and at that time you might go to NC State for camp but a lot of the other colleges could be there watching at the camp and we got our kids seen by people. It’s a lot easier this day and time to do that because you’ve got film and Hudl and all this video stuff. We had to take them to the coaches, so our staff would spend three or four weeks in a summer, carrying these kids to these camps to be seen. Once that started and some of our kids started working out in colleges and being real good players, then they started flocking down here. I remember one game we had at West Craven, we had fourteen college coaches standing in the endzone watching a ball game.
MB: That’s pretty impressive. What were some of the difficulties in managing the athletes, and also the students, and really keeping them on the right path. What was your leadership method to do that?
CJ: I think the hardest thing I had to get through our kid’s heads was there are a lot of people in this building or in this area that don’t want you to succeed because they didn’t want to put in the effort. If you succeed it makes them look bad, so they’re going to do everything they can to tear you down. And I had to get our kids realizing that it might be losing some friends or it might be not going to certain parties, but that’s the price you’ve got to pay to get this done. Peer pressure is so tough and it’s hard to convince a kid. “Coach, what do you mean I can’t be his friend?” Well is he doing anything to hurt you? Does he want you to do things that are not going to be good for your future? “Well, yeah sometimes.” Well then he can’t be your friend. I said you can love him up, but- and breaking those barriers was the biggest thing.
A lot of our parents around here were not college people, so college was not an important- I’m not saying it wasn’t important, but it wasn’t in their family. You know, and a lot of our people around here didn’t realize what the opportunities were- I’m talking about parents and friends and grandparents. You kind of had to do a sales job on them. “Guys, there’s other things out there and you’re just as capable of doing that and it doesn’t matter what your economic situation is. I use examples to show some of our kids that economics cannot stop you from doing this stuff. Lee Becton, who signed at Notre Dame, that kid there was a straight-A kid, National Honor Society, and lived in a small little house. He had a great family, great family, but they didn’t have a lot. He was eventually captain of Notre Dame’s football team coming from Ernul, North Carolina. I mean those are amazing stories, now, I’m telling you!
MB: For sure, it gives a lot of these younger guys some shoes to put themselves in.
CJ: Oh, yeah! They’ll come up to you sometimes and you can tell, looking at their face, “Coach I can’t go to college. I ain’t got nothing.” You ain’t gonna have nothing. You gotta have character. You gotta have some academics. You gotta be good at football. That’s your ticket if that’s what you want to use as your ticket. Athletics is not for everybody, but for a certain few it is their ticket.
MB: You started and finished the ‘80s pretty strong and began the ‘90s in the same way, winning the conference titles in ‘89 and ‘90. This is when my dad was in school there. He was good friends with Lee and also Kevin Holzworth. What was it like to coach a standout like Lee Becton and describe the kind of athlete he was. You mentioned the type of person and student he was, but just him as a football player, what was he like to coach?
CJ: See, by that time we had Pop Warner Football going on here. Mr. Perry Morris, a good friend of mine, was coaching a Pop Warner team and he told me, he said, “Clay, I got this kid named Lee Becton,” he was probably eight/nine years old, he said, “You better keep your eye on him.” So, I went out there and watched all their games and he was just so athletic and so smooth. When he came to high school, not only was he a great player, oh, God what a great kid. Him and Kevin Holzworth were best of friends. When you saw one, you saw them both. I could give you millions of examples of that. I tell everybody all the time, “You ever seen two boys hugging each other?” They'll say, “No!” I say, “I see it every Friday night.” Every Friday night, you know, I say, “Y’all don’t understand the good that comes out of this thing.” It’s not unusual for me to see that kind of embrace after a game, crying happily after a win, I mean that’s just common.
MB: When he was playing, talking about Lee Becton, was the entire offense based around him? How much of a passing attack did you guys have when he was back there in the backfield.
CJ: Well, of course, we’re not stupid. We’re gonna get the ball in our best people’s hands, so we ran the ball a lot back then. Kevin was a great option quarterback, where you fake the ball and then you read a guy. So, we put in a lot of triple option because we were utilizing Kevin’s ability to make good decisions and Lee’s ability, once he made the decisions, to get the football and take it to the house. We had a good offensive line. Mr. Eddie McKeel, who played at Wake Forest, was on the offensive line of that team. We were just mauling people! (laughs) We were mauling people. But Lee was special. I mean, you don’t go to Notre Dame unless you’re special. Especially back in that day. They were the premier. People around here would say, “Lee, don’t- you’re never gonna play up there.” Yeah right. Try being MVP of the Cotton Bowl and captain of the team. He proved a lot of people wrong in that regard. But no, we were pretty good at getting the ball to the right people.
MB: Pretty good philosophy.
CJ: (laughs) You better find your players and you better get the ball to them.
MB: Coach Jones happened to mention that Lee Becton was probably the best defensive basketball player he’s ever coached. Just thinking about multi-sport athletes and I guess nowadays you see more and more guys just focusing on one sport or the star player doesn’t want to get hurt playing another sport. Did you push guys to play other sports beyond just football? How does that benefit them in their main sport?
CJ: We had a great situation. Me and Coach Jones went to high school together, we played together. He was coaching basketball, so I was the JV basketball coach and he helped me with football. He was the JV football coach. So word kind of got around that if you want to play JV basketball you better be playing football. With Coach Jones, if you wanted to play varsity basketball you better be playing football. (laughs) You know, and so word kind of got around. We didn’t have a lot of specialization back then. Back in those days our kids were just looking for stuff to do and even today. If you’ll look at Patrick Mahomes and look at the great baseball players and the great football players and the great basketball- Lebron James, high school football standout. I mean, Allen Iverson, high school all-American football. I wish more of our kids could realize that this specialization stuff is not what they’re looking for. These professional teams are looking for athletes. It puts a hurt on some of them because, I mean if some baseball team was trying to draft a kid, well if he was a baseball kid only, they’re going to ask the question, “Why didn’t you play any other sports?” Because in the back of their mind they’re thinking, “Maybe he’s not an athlete like we thought he was.” So, I think at this day and time, this specialization era- I mean look at all the arm problems some of these baseball kids are having by throwing twelve months a year for baseball. Look at the football kids that play football year round, which has been going on, I mean their knees are being torn. Play everything, holy cow!
MB: Once that group moved on from the ‘90-’91 era, Mr. Anthony Wright immediately followed them. Can you talk about the kind of player he was? What was his passing skills and mobility like? And just his overall style of play.
CJ: Yeah, Anthony was probably one of the best high school pocket passers, throwing behind the line, not rolling out, but what we call pocket passers. He could take a five step drop and throw it into thimble. I want to think we had something to do with that, developing that, but some kids are just gifted with that. He could make every throw on the field. We could send receivers where we wanted them, where it was open, and he could get the ball to them. He’s always full of energy. Always full of energy, good Lord, sometimes I wanted to shut him up myself, but he was really a motivator to our kids and came from a great family. His mom and dad are just saints of the earth and I still see them all the time, but he was as good a pure passer as I’ve seen around here in a long time.
MB: I guess there was more of a passing attack, like you said, get the ball to and use your best players.
CJ: Yeah, we were seventy percent pass back then.
MB: Do you remember any of those receivers that kind of developed because he was such a good passer that I guess it made them better?
CJ: Yeah! We had a kid named Bobby Cox at that time who went and played at Elon. He was a great receiver at that time. He works at our school now. I’m sure we had other ones, but like I said, all this stuff kind of runs together. (laughs)
MB: That’s no problem. So, beginning in 1993 you guys won the conference four years in a row. How much did the offense change, if at all, when Anthony Wright graduated in ‘94.
CJ: Well, we went through a spell there where we started having good quarterbacks about every year. A lot of our middle school kids started seeing us, coming to our games, throwing the ball around a lot and kind of fell in love with it. We started having a pretty good run at quarterback, so we kept primarily throwing around a lot. Two reasons: number one, we were getting good quarterbacks and receivers; number two, it was so much easier to attack a defense through the air because it wasn’t “the thing,” you know, it was a little different. We used to beat our heads against the wall trying to play Havelock because they put everybody in a box and were stunting and blitzing, trying to figure out how to block that stuff. So we just figured out, the heck with it, let’s put four wide receivers out here. They can’t blitz everybody because they’ve got to guard them and let’s just throw it. That’s the way we started beating a lot of teams we shouldn’t beat, to be honest with you. You know, we had a pretty good run of quarterbacks there.
MB: In 1996 you were kind of in the same position. One game away from going to states. What was that run like over ten years after the ‘85 season, being in that same position. Did the game of football change much in that period?
CJ: Well, it did with other people. Other people at that time had started throwing the ball around a little bit and they were catching up with stuff we were doing but we were pretty balanced around that era. We were run/pass, because like I said we had good backs and offensive football is not real hard when you find your best players and you figure out how to get the ball to them. So we were pretty balanced back then. That ‘96 team was a heck of a team too. We just- we would always, once we got advanced in the playoffs, we would get out in the western part of the state and most of the counties out there had open enrollments, which means you could go anywhere in the county for school, no matter where you lived. So when we got to the Winston-Salem or Burlington areas, those kids would kind of pick and choose where they went to school and all the good ones would decide to go to one school. So, it got to a kind of unlevel playing field at that time. We still battled them pretty good, but that’s still going on today. That’s why everybody says, “Why’s the west always win everything in football in North Carolina?” Well that’s because most of them have open enrollment counties.
MB: After that ‘96 season there seemed to be more of a transitional period, I think 2001 was the next year you guys made the playoffs. How was it during those years? Did the support waver from those earlier seasons when the stands were probably packed.
CJ: Well, the support wavered a little bit but our people around here have always been football fans. I mean, we’ve always had good crowds. Now, those four or five years, to be honest with you, the well just ran dry. We didn’t have the number of athletes we normally had. I remember in those years we had a few discipline problems and had to make some tough choices on some kids. Those were some tough years but the area never quit on us. I mean they kept supporting us and it was tough on our coaches because we weren’t used to doing that. I had coaches that had been with me for twenty years. Coach McMillen had been with me forever and Coach Murphy had been with me forever and Coach Baggot. We had the same group of coaches and that was a tough period for us because we had been on a roll for about fifteen years. I’ll tell you, when you have situations like that you kind of just- you try to do the best you can do, but you try to maybe work on the character of the kids a little bit. Even if you didn’t have a good year record-wise, let's have a good year of learning how to be a man.
MB: Look at the bigger picture.
CJ: Right. We kind of took that attitude, you know, let’s work on the character here and let them be better people when they leave us than when they came to us and those types of things.
MB: Learn from those tough moments. In the 2001 season, which was the year I was born, twenty-one years ago, was the beginning of another three-peat era of conference championships. That culminated in ‘03, which was another runner-up season to getting to the state championship game. At that point in your career, were you feeling any pressure to get past that hump of trying to get to a state championship? Whether it was self-induced or from outside voices.
CJ: Yeah. I felt terrible for the community because I just felt like I had let them down because we never could get this area to a state championship game. It wore on me, but now that I look back on it, it just wasn’t meant to be, knowing some of the ways we lost some of those games. But even at that, we didn’t get to the state championship game but one time. We had good years and the kids felt good about themselves and they could talk about that the rest of their life. I think that we were pretty good role models as far as changing some kid’s lives around, those types of things. I think now that it’s over, I wish I had just worried about, “did we make a difference?” We all say we think, but when you’re in the heat of battle and you’re coaching, it’s hard to have that perspective.
MB: Kind of building up to that ‘08 season, which was your final year of head coaching, can you talk about the development of that ‘08 team? Just from their freshman/sophomore years, could you always tell there was something special about that group?
CJ: Yeah. Well we had a great combination there. I had a quarterback named Brett Mooring who- he was a lot like Anthony, could make every throw. We had four wide receivers that were as good a group of wide receivers: Erik Highsmith, who went to Carolina, Chris Person, a little kid named Ryan Murphy, and the other wideout was Justin Hardy.
MB: Not a bad group.
CJ: No! So, that year our running game was not great. Our running back wasn’t a very big kid, but he ran pretty hard.
MB: Tyree Dawson, I believe.
CJ: Yeah! That’s right. He ran real hard for us. When we needed him he was there, but we just sold out to throwing the football. We could throw it- Brett could throw it- and those kids could catch it, and our offensive line could protect it. Some of our stats that year were unbelievable.
MB: All three receivers nearly reached a thousand yards. I think Erick and Ryan did, Justin was right there close to it. Brett Mooring had over three thousand passing yards.
CJ: During that year, probably the greatest high school game I’ve ever been associated with was the Rocky Mount game.
MB: Oh yeah, I’ll get to that shortly. Before that season even started, did you know that would be your final one as head coach?
CJ: No. I didn’t. I really didn’t mean for it to be. In 2008 I had my time in and I was going to retire in December. Back then, you gotta understand they had this thing called double dipping. You could retire for six months, come back to your job, make your retirement money plus your teaching salary. I wanted my wife, Paula, to be able to retire from the hospital, so I decided to retire in December, to come back and start back coaching in June. It was all set up, the Principal at West Craven was set to go and then in February of that year, Ms. Barrow called me and she said, “Coach, I’ve got the hardest phone call I’ve ever had to make, but I can’t rehire you because they’re taken out this double dipping thing.” So, there I was. I didn’t really want to be out of football. I didn’t want to come out of retirement, either, because I already had started my retirement checks. My wife had retired, so we didn’t have that income coming anymore. So for six months I didn’t do anything because that’s when I thought I was coming back. You had to sit out six months, and then I couldn’t live like that. I didn’t really retire to retire, but now that I look back on it, that was probably a good time, you know.
MB: Not a bad group to finish with.
CJ: No, and I remember the Rocky Mount game, when we won that game. I was trying to run across the field to shake the other coach’s hand and I really got so excited. I went down to both knees on the field and Mr. Cannon, (laughs) he thought I had passed out (laughs)
MB: I remember that. I was in second grade that year and I’ll never forget watching The Blitz at 11 p.m. on News Channel 12 that night after guys beat Rocky Mount. It was 22-19 and watching you just jump around and let loose! I’ll never forget them showing that. What was that game like?
CJ: It was a heck of a game! They were a running team. We were a throwing team. Both defenses played pretty good, to be honest with you.
MB: Pretty low scoring.
CJ: Yeah, but it was nip and tuck the whole game and they scored and we got the ball back and we had to drive it like eighty yards down the field. We scored with like a minute and a half to go to take the lead. Good story about that, the guy that caught the touchdown pass, a kid named Rod Cox, who had hardly caught a ball the whole year, he went to NC State to play football, now he’s working for a- he’s a-
MB: NASCAR?
CJ: NASCAR! In the pit crew. But we scored and they got it back and drove it down. They were getting close to the endzone and Ryan Murphy, I think it was Ryan Murphy, caused a fumble from their fullback. They got the ball back and tried a field goal for the last kick of the game and they missed it. That was when I just lost it, and not so much lost it for me, but just for our community. I said, “Jeepers Creepers! if I had gone thirty years and not at least gave them a shot to go to a state championship game,” you know, and that just- it was like a weight off my shoulders.
MB: I’m sure. Got the monkey off your back.
CJ: Yeah it was just a weight off my shoulder.
MB: I was actually there at Wake Forest for the state championship game. Obviously, it was a tough way to go out in your final game. What were those emotions like afterwards for the players? It wasn’t a two point game or anything but-
CJ: No, we got blown out!
MB: How did you convey your pride for just being there?
CJ: Well that group was pretty special, anyways. There were some good character kids on that team. Good character kids care. Losing bothers them, but because of the character of those kids, they understood it wasn’t the end of the world. I don’t get real impressed when somebody, after a loss, slams a helmet on the ground or lays on the field crying and that kind of stuff. That’s not really what we’re trying to teach here. You know, we’re trying to teach you do the best you can and you feel good if you do the best you can and you don’t like losing but there’s more important things in this world. That group was like that. That loss was disappointing but I didn’t have to worry about this crowd just going crazy, crying and throwing stuff. No, they were too good of character kids to do that. And I’ll tell you, we ran into the same situation. We played a team from the west.
MB: West Rowan.
CJ: Between Winston Salem and Charlotte. They were a team that didn’t have school districts and their tailback went to Virginia and started for four years there. They were really good. They scored the first play of the game, we took the ball right down the field and hit a pass going into the endzone. It was knocked out of our hands. We fumbled it through the back of the endzone, and then it just snowballed from there.
It was a great run. You know it’s disappointing not ever having won a state championship, bringing it back to this area, but I think people around here are still proud of West Craven football.
MB: No doubt. The following year the team returned many key players and Justin moved to quarterback. Did you go to any games that next season in ‘09 following your last year there?
CJ: I went to a few. It was tough … It was tough. I didn’t coach anywhere that year and I went to a few. A lot of them I left at halftime. I just- it was weird (laughs)
MB: I can imagine after thirty years!
CJ: (laughs) It was weird!
MB: So, when did the transition to New Bern happen with your involvement there? Was that a tough decision to go there or was it just that itch of coaching that was greater?
CJ: Well after I found out that I wasn’t going back to West Craven in 2009 I didn’t coach anywhere and my wife told me, “You go find a coaching job.” I was working driver’s ed up in Raleigh. She said, “I’ve never seen you so miserable in your life.” I didn’t want to come back to West Craven because, the guy that took my place, Coach Yost, that wouldn’t have been fair to him. If I had come back out there to help him and we had some success, I was scared that, “Oh, Coach Jordan’s back,” you know?
I knew that wasn’t the thing to do. That’s where I’d rather have been, but then Coach Curlings at New Bern called me. He said, “Man, you looking to get back in football?” I said, “Well, I am but it’s not gonna be at West Craven. That’s not the right thing to do.” He said, “Well, I need an offensive coordinator over here.” And I said, “Well, I’ll have to let you know, that’s a …”
MB: That’s a tough one there.
CJ: A pretty tough one. I came home and my wife and I talked about it. She said, “Well honey, you’re miserable.” I said, “Well honey, what are people around here going to say?” she said, “Clay, they’re going to understand why you’re not coming back to West Craven.” Well, no they didn’t! It got kind of rough there for a while. I mean, I had people I thought were my friends that, you know. But that was neither here nor there, I never even told them why I didn’t go back to West Craven. I didn’t think they even worthy to know that. (laughs)
MB: You would think they’d kind of put it together.
CJ: Yeah, but I went over to New Bern and had a great time … Had a great time. I mean, they treated me and my wife, Paula, like royalty over there. I had a really good time over there and it was enjoyable because, keep in mind, I had never been an assistant coach. So everything had always fallen back on me. For those three years I could say, “Man, you need to talk to him over there.” (laughs)
MB: The head guy’s over there!
CJ: (laughs) That’s right!
MB: So you got your well-deserved state championship ring in 2012. Was that feeling like you had imagined it being?
CJ: I really- like I said, I thoroughly enjoyed my time at New Bern and that state championship, it was big time, but it wasn’t the same. I’m just gonna be honest with you. Coaching Curlings was great to work with, we’re best friends in the world right now. I had a great three years and it was so enjoyable. I was so proud of those kids and I was proud of being a part of it. I’ve got the ring but I’ve never worn it. I mean, it’s just not, you know …
MB: It doesn’t have the West Craven logo on it, in other words.
CJ: No and no disrespect to New Bern. I just don’t care about flaunting. That’s not, you know …
MB: I understand that. What year was it that you came back to West Craven to be an assistant there?
CJ: In 2012 I won a state championship with New Bern. I came back in ’13.
MB: What was it that led you to come back and contribute? Was it the coaching change with Coach Riggsbee coming in?
CJ: Yeah, yeah. It was the coaching change because I felt like Coach Yost had his chance.
MB: Three years.
CJ: Three years and I felt like I hadn’t gotten in his way. I felt like I had been gone long enough that if Coach Riggsbee would have me, he’d have me- that I could help him out and that the people in the area had had enough time to kinda say, “Okay, it’s time to move on.” So, I came back and thoroughly enjoyed that. I’m still out there but it was good to get back home. Not that I didn’t enjoy New Bern. I really did, but it was good to get back at home and help him.
MB: As an assistant, do you kind of see the game with a different point of view? Whether you’re up in the press box calling plays or on the sidelines with that different vantage point.
CJ: As an assistant it’s a lot easier because you’ve only got to make sure that- well you want the team to do well, but your position is all you’re worried about. You need to be the head coach of that position. I know how I can help head coaches when I’m an assistant because I know what they’re having to go through. People that have never been in that job, they don’t understand the time and the hours and the worry. I use this example, when a teacher goes on a field trip once a year with a class, they think, “Oh golly, I’ve got a field trip.” Well, we take fifty a year, at night. It’s just the pressure and the responsibility you have is unbelievable. It is a breath of fresh air as an assistant coach because that stuff wears on you. I can see why there’s not many people that are thirty year coaches anymore, because it wears on you.
MB: In 2016 and ‘17 it kind of seemed like the program was back on the level it used to be on a consistent basis back in the day. Both seasons finished with tough playoff losses. The last one was to Havelock out there in the freezing cold. What were those last two seasons in that 3-A conference like? The ‘16 and ‘17 years and that group of kids.
CJ: Yeah, they were good teams. We had good teams and we had good coaching. The biggest problem back then- Havelock’s enrollment was going up and ours was going down and it’s even worse now. You know back when I used to battle Havelock, we were about the same size school, so we had an equal playing field. Well that’s not prevalent anymore, I mean we’re sitting there with 700-750 students and you’re looking at Havelock with 1200-1300 and New Bern with 1800. Those things have separated, so it’s not- I mean losing to a Havelock or New Bern is still not good but it’s almost unrealistic to think that we should be competing with them anymore.
MB: I remember that 38-16 New Bern game and I think y’all beat them two times in that period.
CJ: That was unbelievable.
MB: Just the crowd, the stands were packed and it was just kind of a nostalgic feel to that era. I remember starting off my high school years then.
CJ: Oh yeah, I mean those are still great games. Fans are into it. It’s just that the separation is getting so big now. I look in the papers right now and Havelock has 120 something players and we’re sitting there with fifty, JV and varsity, and they’re got 120, you know?
MB: Two different trajectories.
CJ: It’s separating a lot because of demographics. I don’t know why our school is going down so much. I have no idea, I’m not in that business.
MB: Just a few to kind of finish up. Bigger picture stuff here. How would you say the game of football evolved during your time as coach, during your years as head coach and then the ten-plus years of being an assistant? How have you seen it evolve, if at all?
CJ: Well I think first and foremost there’s gotta be, and there is, you’ve got to do more with the kids in the offseason than you used to have to do when I was there. Our kids usually came in shape, I mean they worked in tobacco fields all day in the heat, the heat didn’t bother them. They were outside playing all the time. Kids nowadays, you better have a good weight program and you better have a good conditioning program, because you’re not gonna get kids that are in the physical shape that they were when I was coming through. I mean it’s not even close. I think that has evolved that if you want to be competitive anymore you better have an offseason program and you better work it.
MB: From a coaching standpoint and also being a leader of a group of guys each year, how would you say you evolved with those changing times?
CJ: Yeah, I think things I had to do even during my career, was we had to do the same thing. We had to get our weight room built up. We had to make sure we got stronger because the kids were not going to get stronger- they were not doing things to get stronger anymore. We had to encourage our kids to run track, if they could. I know I took over the track program for two years. I couldn’t get my kids to run track, so I made it mandatory and for two years we won two conference championships in track. You know, that had to be a priority. And another thing, nowadays- eligibility and things like that, we didn’t have to worry about. Our kids, most years I was coaching, we didn’t lose a lot of players because of eligibility requirements because they loved football enough that they were gonna do the school work, I’m just gonna be honest with you. Well, nowadays that’s not as prevalent as it used to be. Now, you’ve gotta stay on those kids about their grades and even if you stay on them and stay on them, sometimes they don’t get it done. The only thing I can figure is that it’s not that important to them.
MB: Would you say there’s more distractions also?
CJ: There is.
MB: Everyone has a device on them.
CJ: Oh it’s crazy, I hear kids at practice talking about, “Man, I was on the phone till three o’clock in the morning!” You know and I’m thinking, “What?” But again, they don’t have to get up at five o’clock and go to work anymore.
MB: Exactly. Makes a big difference.
CJ: (laughs) Makes a big difference.
MB: So, the coaching profession, as you’ve mentioned, comes with a lot of time commitments and many other things that weigh on you. How were you able to balance your personal and professional life? Did the wins and losses go beyond the sidelines? Did you take that with you in your everyday life?
CJ: Well, yes and no. Yes, early in my career I took it with me and it wasn’t fair to my family. I’ll tell you, during my first fifteen or twenty years, if we lost a game on Friday I didn’t come out of my house until Sunday church. I didn’t want to be seen. Didn’t want to answer any questions about what happened. I had my priorities all warped … all warped. The last ten years were a lot better as far as that goes. I understood what Christian values are and what athletic values are. I’m not a preacher but I found out that some of the stuff I thought was very very important wasn’t really important. So that changed my last eight or ten years and things were so much smoother.
MB: When was the stadium named in your honor? I guess that was during your time as coach?
CJ: I guess I was still coaching. I’ll tell you, I’m not real big on dates.
MB: How did you feel about that when it came to your attention that they were doing that?
CJ: It was a big honor. I mean it’s not anything I couldn’t have died without happening, I’ll be honest with you. It was a big honor. It was more of an honor to the kids that came through there and made that happen. I felt really good for my wife and my mom and dad and my kids. It was probably a lot bigger to them.
MB: Because it’s their last name.
CJ: That’s right. Yeah, it was a big honor and I’ll cherish every minute of it. You know, because my values changed a lot towards the end of my career, it’s not something I had to have. I wish I could speak to a bunch of coaches that have the same feelings as I did about win or die, you know? I wish I could talk to them and say, “Wait a minute now! Let’s look at what’s really important here in this thing. Are you turning out better men than you took in? Are you teaching some morals? Are kids better because they were in your program?” Instead of “I was 2-8 that year,” you know? But that’s hard because the community doesn’t see it that way either.
MB: You feel a lot of pressure from those outside voices.
CJ: Oh sure there is.
MB: Talking about maintaining those relationships, building those relationships with your players, do you still keep in touch with a lot of the guys you coached? Whether it’s thirty years ago or ten/twenty years ago?
CJ: I’m on Facebook with them every night.
MB: There you go!
CJ: (laughs) Every time I see one of them comment about something on Facebook, we’re chatting. I’ve got most of them liked on my Facebook, some I don’t, but I still love to- I mean they’re spread out all over the country now. Any time I can find one of them on Facebook- and I’m not a computer guy, I don’t really know what I’m doing, but I enjoy talking to them.
MB: I guess that says a lot that these guys are spread out. It shows you the opportunities they had because a lot of it started with football.
CJ: Yeah, I think a lot of the opportunities came up because of their athletic careers and we’ve got kids all over North Carolina that now are having kids, Anthony Wright’s son probably is going to be the number one quarterback in the state in two years. I mean they’re spread out all over.
This job is really good. When I see one of my kids up at the speedway that graduated from high school and got him a job at Weyerhaeuser or Moen and I see him up there buying a soft drink, and he says, “What’s up, Coach?” he says, “Man, we had some good times, didn’t we?” That’s what I love. I mean, these guys that made it big, I am so tickled for them, but I like these old cats around here that they sit around the country stores and they talk about, you know. I don’t go to the mall much, but when I do- my wife says, “I hate going to the mall because everybody’s coming up.” All my players, you know.
MB: You’re going to be there for a while.
CJ: Yeah! But that’s what it’s all about.
MB: Lastly, I have to ask about your famous quote, “Do it for the kids that never had a chance.”
CJ: Yeah.
MB: I’ve heard that quite a few times. What does that mean to you and when did you start using that?
CJ: Well, I started using that when our kids started getting opportunities to do things. I wanted them to understand that what they were doing in football was making a big impact on the lives of these other kids that are younger than them. And when they saw them, those kids were thinking, “I’ll never have a chance to do that,” and I want our kids to understand, do it for those kids that don’t have a chance, or don’t think they have a chance so they can say, “Hey, I can do that one day.” You know, hoping to change that mindset around. I’m surprised you remember- how’d you learn my quote?
MB: Well, back in my middle school playing days, that’s about as far as I went.
CJ: Yeah, I remember you!
MB: Due to some physical capabilities, but just going to some of those football camps and you would just kind of be roaming around the field and wouldn’t say it to anybody directly but you’d just say it aloud and it would be heard.
CJ: Oh, yeah.
MB: And it would stick with people.
CJ: Oh, my kids- my former players, they’ll go, “Coach I’m still doing it for those kids that didn’t think they had a chance, man.” (laughs)
MB: That’s what it’s all about. That’s what you built your career on.
CJ: That’s what made our program. I mean we went from tobacco farming nobodies to pretty impressive people.
